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	<title>Comments on: The Plot Thickens</title>
	<atom:link href="http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/</link>
	<description>A blog about beer in Vancouver British Columbia</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-10275</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 06:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-10275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FYI: Some new documents on their TM for Nitro was posted:


01/24/2013
MOTION TO AMEND ANSWER/AMENDED ANSWER OR COUNTERCLAIM

01/15/2013
DISCOVERY CONFERENCE ORDER; TRIAL DATES RESET]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI: Some new documents on their TM for Nitro was posted:</p>
<p>01/24/2013<br />
MOTION TO AMEND ANSWER/AMENDED ANSWER OR COUNTERCLAIM</p>
<p>01/15/2013<br />
DISCOVERY CONFERENCE ORDER; TRIAL DATES RESET</p>
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		<title>By: A chat with Steamworks about Cascadia &#124; Love Good Beer</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-10032</link>
		<dc:creator>A chat with Steamworks about Cascadia &#124; Love Good Beer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-10032</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] up another fuss over Cascadia.  This topic has already been well covered by three comprehensive posts over at Barley Mowat and I&#8217;m not intending a rehash (side note: I talked to Chuck last week [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] up another fuss over Cascadia.  This topic has already been well covered by three comprehensive posts over at Barley Mowat and I&#8217;m not intending a rehash (side note: I talked to Chuck last week [...]</p>
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		<title>By: chuck</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-8430</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 05:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-8430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@BeerWrangler - Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Licensing it out to build the claim and then jacking the price for a quick easy profit is my new best theory for the game plan here. I hate to say it, but I kinda admire the emotionless laser focus on profit at the expense of all other considerations. You just don&#039;t see that any more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BeerWrangler &#8211; Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Licensing it out to build the claim and then jacking the price for a quick easy profit is my new best theory for the game plan here. I hate to say it, but I kinda admire the emotionless laser focus on profit at the expense of all other considerations. You just don&#8217;t see that any more.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: fuckyoueli</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-8428</link>
		<dc:creator>fuckyoueli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-8428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@BeerWrangler I&#039;ve known Tony since the pre-Dix days.  He&#039;s a very capable brewer. Timmy I&#039;m not as familiar with, admittedly, but he seems solid as well.  HOWEVER, decent brewers does not equal high quality brewery, just like a good chef does not equal great restaurant (Ensemble Tap anyone?)

Dead Frog puts out a lower quality product than R&amp;B, plain and simple.  The measure of a brewery&#039;s quality is indicative of the entire organization&#039;s commitment to said quality, not the capability of one or two employees. I can tell you first hand stories of just how low the quality bar actually is over there in Aldergrove, regardless of who is manning the kettle.

Case in point: have you tasted the so-called best beer in BC lately?  The Steamworks Pilsner coming out of Dead Frog has been absolutely dreadful.  And don&#039;t think I&#039;m just some hater that&#039;s got it out it for Eli, or Steamworks, or Dead Frog.  I have nothing personal against any of them (well, I really dislike Eli&#039;s approach to business and his obvious disdain for the industry, but he&#039;s never done anything to me). I&#039;ve given that beer, along with their pale ale, numerous tastes.  In my opinion it&#039;s actually getting worse, not better.

This discussion isn&#039;t about the beer though. Whether you like the beer or hate it, the issue at hand is how they are entering the craft beer market and immediately fucking with other fantastic breweries who just can&#039;t afford to fight back! Then they have the gall to call out GIB as not a &quot;true craft brewery&quot;. How much do you care about your own product when not only do you sub out its production, but you sub it out to one of the worst breweries in the province?

Let the beers compete on the shelves and taps! The people will choose what they want to drink. Keep the back door legal bullshit out of the industry!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BeerWrangler I&#8217;ve known Tony since the pre-Dix days.  He&#8217;s a very capable brewer. Timmy I&#8217;m not as familiar with, admittedly, but he seems solid as well.  HOWEVER, decent brewers does not equal high quality brewery, just like a good chef does not equal great restaurant (Ensemble Tap anyone?)</p>
<p>Dead Frog puts out a lower quality product than R&amp;B, plain and simple.  The measure of a brewery&#8217;s quality is indicative of the entire organization&#8217;s commitment to said quality, not the capability of one or two employees. I can tell you first hand stories of just how low the quality bar actually is over there in Aldergrove, regardless of who is manning the kettle.</p>
<p>Case in point: have you tasted the so-called best beer in BC lately?  The Steamworks Pilsner coming out of Dead Frog has been absolutely dreadful.  And don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m just some hater that&#8217;s got it out it for Eli, or Steamworks, or Dead Frog.  I have nothing personal against any of them (well, I really dislike Eli&#8217;s approach to business and his obvious disdain for the industry, but he&#8217;s never done anything to me). I&#8217;ve given that beer, along with their pale ale, numerous tastes.  In my opinion it&#8217;s actually getting worse, not better.</p>
<p>This discussion isn&#8217;t about the beer though. Whether you like the beer or hate it, the issue at hand is how they are entering the craft beer market and immediately fucking with other fantastic breweries who just can&#8217;t afford to fight back! Then they have the gall to call out GIB as not a &#8220;true craft brewery&#8221;. How much do you care about your own product when not only do you sub out its production, but you sub it out to one of the worst breweries in the province?</p>
<p>Let the beers compete on the shelves and taps! The people will choose what they want to drink. Keep the back door legal bullshit out of the industry!</p>
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		<title>By: The Beer Wrangler (@BeerWrangler)</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-8426</link>
		<dc:creator>The Beer Wrangler (@BeerWrangler)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-8426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@fuckyoueli  Tony and Timmy are excellent brewers who work for Dead Frog and even though they inherited recipes, are bringing much needed quality and respect for this brewery (see their new Fearless IPA)

But i digress! If Steamworks licence the use of Cascadia, even for a dollar - this reinforces their trademark claim and I&#039;m sure the signed agreement would state that very clearly.

Once they have reinforced the trademark with licensing then they would be free to charge what they like and probably stop breweries from using it. 
Breweries should NOT pay the dollar fee, it will only help Steamworks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fuckyoueli  Tony and Timmy are excellent brewers who work for Dead Frog and even though they inherited recipes, are bringing much needed quality and respect for this brewery (see their new Fearless IPA)</p>
<p>But i digress! If Steamworks licence the use of Cascadia, even for a dollar &#8211; this reinforces their trademark claim and I&#8217;m sure the signed agreement would state that very clearly.</p>
<p>Once they have reinforced the trademark with licensing then they would be free to charge what they like and probably stop breweries from using it.<br />
Breweries should NOT pay the dollar fee, it will only help Steamworks</p>
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		<title>By: mikescraftbeer</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-8424</link>
		<dc:creator>mikescraftbeer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 00:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-8424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The more I hear about this the more I really get a bad taste in my mouth. I think I will be avoiding steamworks from now on. Sorry Dead Frog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more I hear about this the more I really get a bad taste in my mouth. I think I will be avoiding steamworks from now on. Sorry Dead Frog.</p>
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		<title>By: BCbrews</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-8420</link>
		<dc:creator>BCbrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 23:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-8420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It may help to recall some related local history:

http://bcbrews.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/tree-goes-hop-head-to-hop-head-with-green-flash/

Of course, what makes this case more egregious is that it can have a more far-reaching negative effect -- threatening the adoption of CDA as a beer style (the campaign isn&#039;t over!) and &quot;nitro&quot; as a descriptor of a common beer serving technique. This is not kosher for a business that is supposedly part of the craft beer community.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may help to recall some related local history:</p>
<p><a href="http://bcbrews.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/tree-goes-hop-head-to-hop-head-with-green-flash/" rel="nofollow">http://bcbrews.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/tree-goes-hop-head-to-hop-head-with-green-flash/</a></p>
<p>Of course, what makes this case more egregious is that it can have a more far-reaching negative effect &#8212; threatening the adoption of CDA as a beer style (the campaign isn&#8217;t over!) and &#8220;nitro&#8221; as a descriptor of a common beer serving technique. This is not kosher for a business that is supposedly part of the craft beer community.</p>
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		<title>By: chuck</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-8415</link>
		<dc:creator>chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-8415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@fuckyoueli - Whoa. That&#039;s a story I did not know, as are quite a few stories that people have privately emailed me or told me in person. I still don&#039;t like name calling, but I&#039;m not going to insist that everyone else play by my rules. Personally, I think that a person who behaves as your story describes doesn&#039;t need to be called names to diminish their character--they&#039;re way ahead of you simply by their actions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fuckyoueli &#8211; Whoa. That&#8217;s a story I did not know, as are quite a few stories that people have privately emailed me or told me in person. I still don&#8217;t like name calling, but I&#8217;m not going to insist that everyone else play by my rules. Personally, I think that a person who behaves as your story describes doesn&#8217;t need to be called names to diminish their character&#8211;they&#8217;re way ahead of you simply by their actions.</p>
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		<title>By: fuckyoueli</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-8413</link>
		<dc:creator>fuckyoueli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-8413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another recent classy move by Eli: 

Up until a few months ago Steamworks was being brewed R&amp;B Brewing.  Well, at some point R&amp;B hired someone who used to work for Eli and left on less-than-favourable terms.  Eli called up Barry at R&amp;B and demanded the new employee be fired by the end of the day or he would cancel their brewing contract immediately.  R&amp;B are great people, but they really needed that contract so they let the employee go.  About a month later Steamworks changed over to Dead Frog for their production anyway because they were cheaper and could produce more volume, although quality would unquestionably be lower (so much for the whole &quot;craft&quot; beer thing).  

So basically Eli fucked over the former employee over some weird vendetta, AND he fucked over R&amp;B.  So even though you don&#039;t approve of name calling, Chuck, I say &quot;FUCK YOU, ELI!&quot;

My boycott remains in effect indefinitely, and I will urge my friends to do likewise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another recent classy move by Eli: </p>
<p>Up until a few months ago Steamworks was being brewed R&amp;B Brewing.  Well, at some point R&amp;B hired someone who used to work for Eli and left on less-than-favourable terms.  Eli called up Barry at R&amp;B and demanded the new employee be fired by the end of the day or he would cancel their brewing contract immediately.  R&amp;B are great people, but they really needed that contract so they let the employee go.  About a month later Steamworks changed over to Dead Frog for their production anyway because they were cheaper and could produce more volume, although quality would unquestionably be lower (so much for the whole &#8220;craft&#8221; beer thing).  </p>
<p>So basically Eli fucked over the former employee over some weird vendetta, AND he fucked over R&amp;B.  So even though you don&#8217;t approve of name calling, Chuck, I say &#8220;FUCK YOU, ELI!&#8221;</p>
<p>My boycott remains in effect indefinitely, and I will urge my friends to do likewise.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://barleymowat.com/2012/11/27/the-plot-thickens/#comment-8410</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://barleymowat.com/?p=2550#comment-8410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The interesting thing is he had a trademark on Steamwroks that applies to coffee shops and cafes. Eli is a smart cookie!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interesting thing is he had a trademark on Steamwroks that applies to coffee shops and cafes. Eli is a smart cookie!</p>
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